Clay Cockrell: Hello, and welcome to the Online Counselling Podcast. I’m your host, Clay Cockrell, and I’m so grateful that you’ve chosen to spend a few minutes with me to learn about online therapy and counseling. As you know, I’m pretty passionate about how technology is helping the counseling field and allowing us as online therapists to reach more people. Our goal, as always, is to learn how to do this work successfully, ethically, and responsibly. To meet that goal, we interview leaders in the industry, which can be lawyers, ethics experts, insurance providers, and audiovisual platform providers; those are the actual tools we use to connect with our clients.
CC: We also talk to online therapists who are doing this work, to learn what are the benefits and challenges that they have faced and what has helped them to build successful practices. Today, I’m really excited to talk with one of those successful therapists. Before we get to that, I do want to give my little commercial about the directory. As most of you know, the podcast is associated with the Online Therapy Directory, which is a profile listing service that I created about a year ago. It’s very similar to Psychology Today’s Directory, where therapists list their bios and specialties; but it’s targeted to therapists who have online therapy as part of their services. When a client is specifically looking for someone to do online counseling, they go to onlinecounselling.com, and they put in all the criteria they are looking for. For example, a female therapist who speaks English, who specializes in depression and works with the Muslim population. And boom, they get a list of therapists who could meet their needs.
CC: We put all those filters in there, as well as respecting the state-to-state issue that US therapists must comply with. If you wanna list your practice or just learn more about online counseling, head over to onlinecounselling.com, click on List My Practice. We have a fun, little video on there that will explain everything. Currently, we have two plans. For $24.95 a month, you have the Freedom Plan. You can just pay month-to-month, and end at any time. Or you can do the year-long membership, the Commitment Plan. That brings the fee down to around $12.47 a month, which is about $149 for the year. There you go. Let me know if you have any questions about that, but it’s kinda explained all there at the site under the List My Practice tab.
CC: Now, onto the interview. Today we speak with Viktoria Ivanova, originally from Russia, but now in Manila by way of Canada. I first met Viktoria when she signed up for the directory and I thought, “Hmm, look at this website name. How cool is that?” It’s globaltherapy.online. How perfect is that? Yes, I do go to all of your websites. When you sign up, I want to know about you. I send you an email. Sometimes if I have time, I call you. I want to get to know this family that we’re creating of online therapists. That’s how I got to know Viktoria.
CC: She works with expats. I’m really proud of this interview, even though we did have some sound issues. I’m working from home today, so we’ve got street sweepers and a loud refrigerator to deal with, but I think we’re gonna fix it. We’ll be okay. The information she provides is gold, and we have all the links and tools she talks about in the show notes, so check out those. I hope you enjoy the interview. Viktoria Ivanova.
CC: Hello and welcome! I am very excited to have as our guest today Viktoria Ivanova, who is a Registered Clinical Counsellor. Her website is globaltherapy.online. Viktoria, thank you so much for joining us.
Viktoria Ivanova: Hi, Clay. It’s my pleasure to be on your podcast.
CC: Yes, absolutely. You are talking to us today from the Philippines, correct? In Manila.
VI: Yes, absolutely, from a very, very hot and rainy country at the moment.
[chuckle]
CC: It’s rainy, but not hot here in New York. I’m really glad to get to know you. Tell us a little bit about your journey. You’re originally from Russia, correct?
VI: Yes, absolutely, that’s where I was born, and kinda had my teenage years until I was 16. Then my parents decided to check out Canada, and we moved from Russia to Canada when I was a teenager.
CC: I see.
VI: Since then, we’ve been living in Canada for a while, until my recent transition to Manila.
CC: It’s certainly a global citizen reflected in your website name. You speak both Russian and English, correct?
VI: Yes, absolutely. I’m fluent in both Russian and English, and I write in both languages, and have clients in both languages.
CC: That was my next question because it’s interesting, I have a friend who is Russian, and she talks about the difference in doing therapy in the different languages. It’s just an adjustment with the mind in how you communicate with your client. Have you noticed that as well?
VI: Yeah, absolutely. I think what really determines that is what language you received your training for therapy. I think that will make an impact. Because I have received my training in English, I find it almost easier to do certain things in English in therapy.
CC: Interesting, fascinating.
VI: That was my experience, at least. [chuckle]
CC: Tell me a little bit about what drew you to online therapy, and a little about your training.
VI: I probably… This is an experience of so many therapists. I was just always told that I’m a good listener, and I really enjoyed listening to people’s stories, their concerns. It’s a very classic story. I’m not unique in this manner.
CC: Absolutely, that’s me. [chuckle]
VI: As I was listening, I enjoyed analyzing all the aspects of their behavior and their feelings. It just seemed… Before I knew counseling existed, I thought, “It’s so wonderful, I could make it a job and make a living out of this.” I didn’t even know there was actually a career like that until later. [chuckle]
CC: You get to be paid, paid for the things that you love.
VI: Yeah.
CC: You got your training in Canada? Tell me a little bit about that.
VI: I got my undergraduate degree in Neuroscience from University of British Columbia. Then I went to Ontario, which is a different province, to get my master’s in Counseling Psychology. I finished it all in 2010, and since then, been talking to clients. [chuckle]
CC: That’s wonderful. Did you go into private practice right after you finished, or did you do some kind of internship or working for a community mental health agency?
VI: No, I had a few jobs following my graduation. When I was… I had an internship as part of my counseling training in the second year. I did an internship at a fairly large community college. I really loved working with students because they would come with all their different problems from all walks of life, and I really connected with that. I did it for like seven months, so it was a really good experience. Then from there, I… It was actually right after that recession hit, so it was a challenge to get jobs. [chuckle]
CC: Yeah, absolutely.
VI: But I managed to get a job. My first job after graduating was as a career strategist at an employment and career center. That was a big learning experience. [chuckle] I worked there for a year. After that, I… Because I was quite determined to go back to working with students, I got a job as a university counselor at the University of Fraser Valley. I really loved the environment, the work, and the team. I stayed there for up until last year, so five years altogether.
CC: You didn’t start your private practice then until more recently.
VI: I had a part-time, one-and-a-half days of online therapy private practice while working at the university.
CC: I see.
VI: I kinda had a side practice, a smaller one.
CC: Was that face-to-face, in person?
VI: Yes, that was all face-to-face. A year ago, when I moved to Philippines, was when I actually started my online practice. Basically, my move was a move towards a different lifestyle. I’ve always wanted to be an expat and live abroad, not permanently, but I just wanted to not just travel in places, but live in different places and experience culture. It’s really drawn me. I was looking for a way of how I can make my career flexible, and give me that flexibility. Naturally, online counseling came into play.
CC: Wow. That answers my next question. How were you drawn to the technology end of this? Good. Tell me a little bit about Canadians because I’ve had a few Canadians on the show, as far as licensure and how you were able to do licenses across different provinces.
VI: That’s an interesting question. [chuckle] I’m sure other people already have given you some information, but we have… Usually every province has some unique regulations, and some provinces have more strict guidelines and regulations. They have actual colleges for therapists and counselors. Specifically British Columbia, which is where I registered, doesn’t have at the moment a college. They have British Columbia Association of Registered Clinical Counselors, and I belong to that. They just provide strict guidelines, so you can practice ethically and provide ethical guidance to people. Unfortunately, to be honest, anybody can call themselves a counselor or a therapist because it’s not really a regulated profession at the moment in many provinces.
CC: Are there really limited guidelines for doing telemental health, the online therapy?
VI: At the moment, they are very loose. We don’t have… I know US has very stringent, strict regulations. It has to be HIPAA-compliant conduct. We don’t have that regulation at the moment. It’s quite flexible. It’s up to the individual therapist to then gain the knowledge and ethics surrounding communication online.
CC: I see, okay.
VI: It’s very different in the US, right?
CC: Absolutely, it’s very different. In fact, what you were talking about is generally how everywhere in the world is except the US. [chuckle] We try to make things as complicated as we can down here. [chuckle]
VI: Yes. I think it all comes down to your insurances.
CC: Yeah.
VI: You guys got this insurance craziness. [chuckle]
CC: Absolutely, absolutely, that’s always helpful. [chuckle] Tell me just personally, what drew you to wanting to be an expat, to travel the world?
VI: I imagine many people are very curious about the world and wanna travel. I just… It’s always been on my mind that, why settle in one place and just experience that, when you have a whole world as a playground at the moment?
CC: It’s just a natural thing for you, “I wanna go see the world.” Then was it, “I’ve gotta figure out how to support myself, make money, do my profession,” and that’s where the idea of the online counseling came from?
VI: Yeah, absolutely, that’s exactly it. Since I graduated, I’ve pondered for a way for me to do this. I have applied to a number of schools, international schools, as a counselor; but nothing came out that I was really interested. I continued, in my mind, to search for this. We really… ‘Cause I moved with my partner and we both have full-time jobs, so obviously transitioning from full-time jobs to completely being self-employed, it’s a risk. [chuckle]
CC: Absolutely.
VI: We were quite lucky because an opportunity came up and my partner’s brother lives in Manila, in Philippines. He generously invited us to stay with him, and we decided to take the opportunity. We quit our jobs, and here we are. [chuckle]
CC: And here you are. [chuckle] Welcome back, sorry, we had a little sound problem. I tell my clients all the time that perfection is boring, and just kind of embrace the moment that sometimes things work smoothly and sometimes they don’t. We just adjust, and that’s what I just did. Now we’re in a different room away from the street cleaner.
VI: Beautiful. [chuckle]
CC: Hopefully, this will be a nicer connection, right? [chuckle] Viktoria, just before the break, you were talking about, you came to the Philippines because your partner also wanted to travel and his brother is there, is that right?
VI: Yeah, that’s correct. Yeah, absolutely. We had an opportunity, we were invited by his brother to stay with him. We took the risk, and decided to relocate.
CC: That’s wonderful. What do you think about it so far?
VI: It’s a very lovely country. People are extremely friendly, they’re smiling all the time, they’re quite… They take their time to enjoy things. My impression has been amazing about people. There’s a couple of downsides. Manila is a bit polluted. That’s an element that, after beautiful British Columbia, I’m not used to it. [chuckle]
CC: Have you done any online therapy work with clients before moving to the Philippines?
VI: I guess I had done a few sessions with a number of clients, yes. That took me a while, I had to actually retrace what I did or not, but I remember it, yes.
CC: Was it difficult for you as you… You’re kinda new and beginning into the world of practicing online. What was that like for you to transition from in-person to being an online therapist?
VI: Yes. My one-year anniversary of transitioning into online is coming up in June. At the beginning, it was a bit of a challenging experience because when I moved here and I started the practice from Manila, the internet connection was not very good at our place. [chuckle] That posed significant challenges. Then there was a journey about trying to find the appropriate platform for me to use with clients. That was quite… I tried quite a few. These elements, they pose some challenge. In terms of my own experience, it was certainly different at the beginning, and they’re unusual. After a while, I got really used to it, and I’m very comfortable now.
CC: ‘Cause I hear a lot of therapists talk about that. What was difficult for you just therapeutically connecting with somebody? Was it… Yeah, I won’t lead you on that. What was wonky and difficult for you therapeutically connecting with somebody online?
VI: There’s this element, especially when you start knowing your client, of building a rapport, right? You’re an online therapist, that is an important element.
CC: Right, yeah.
VI: When I was working in person with clients, when they would come in, I would shake their hand. I would offer them a cup of tea or a cup of water, lead them in the room. Let them go first into the room, and then after that… I think these elements of physical comfort, they’re really a part of rapport-building. Important elements, in my opinion. You obviously can’t do them in the online platform. It was just a great icebreaker for especially new clients, or even the ones we haven’t seen for a while, to get them comfortable. You have to find other ways and get creative.
CC: Get creative, exactly. Yeah, it’s just different enough to warrant some adjustments in your approach, but I think that that’s a good point. How did you overcome some of the technical problems, like the internet, for example?
VI: Yeah, that was quite interesting. Eventually, we got a better internet connection at home. Also, when I do sessions, one of the things I do, I always plug my laptop into actual internet connection. I don’t use Wi-Fi.
CC: Yeah, that’s a good tip that I think we haven’t talked about enough on the show, was that Wi-Fi… When you actually plug your computer into your modem, you have a better connection than Wi-Fi, so that’s a good tip.
VI: Yeah, absolutely. I would highly recommended that. Make sure you turn off Wi-Fi when you’re plugged in as well because sometimes you might… You plug it in, but you might still be on Wi-Fi. You have to turn it off.
CC: Good, good, good, good tip.
[laughter]
VI: Yes. Make a note of that, everybody. [chuckle]
CC: Yeah, it took me years to realize that even though I was plugged into my modem, if the Wi-Fi was on, sometimes the computer would choose to be on Wi-Fi, and not on the… I’m going, “Who knew?” It’s just the little things like that.
VI: Yeah, [chuckle] I know.
CC: That’s a good tip. You got better internet. What about the different online therapy platforms that you used? What did you go through, what worked for you, what didn’t?
VI: I was quite ambitious in the beginning. I wanted a platform that would do everything for me. I wanted it to give me HIPAA-compliant encrypted videos and audios. I wanted to be able to schedule clients through it, and to have them make payments for that platform. I was on a search to find something like that, that was also not extremely expensive. I would find many of them, but they were missing one of the elements usually, so that was quite weird. Eventually, [chuckle] I settled for Counsol.com have your heard of them?
CC: I have. I have, yeah.
VI: That’s the US one. They offer all those features. Unfortunately, for me, the video wouldn’t work with them.
CC: Really?
VI: Yeah, because they, I think, only use servers in US and Canada. Because I’m in the Philippines, they don’t have any servers in use here. As a result of that, the video quality was really, really poor and the connection was really poor as a result of that. I had to discontinue using them for that reason. Then I wanted to explore TerraLink into those calls. Does that sound familiar?
CC: TerraLink, yes.
VI: The one downside… It is a really good online therapy platform, but the one thing that wasn’t quite sticking for me is that I had to register clients myself, and then schedule sessions with them. I was really looking for a more accessible way, where clients could go and schedule themselves. That was important for me. Especially when you are a global therapist and you offer sessions to clients worldwide, they can’t just call you. I really wanted to have that accessibility for clients. That turned me off of that platform.
VI: Eventually, I just… Because I couldn’t find the perfect fit, even though it’s a boring fit, [chuckle] I’ve settled for just having Acuity Scheduling on my website.
CC: You’re saying, for scheduling, you use Acuity?
VI: Mm-hmm. Is that the right way to say it? Because I say Acuity. [chuckle]
CC: You say it your way, I’ll say it mine. [chuckle] I listen to a podcast called… I think it’s The Foundation or Mixergy. He’s always talking about how great Acuity is. I haven’t looked into it myself, but it sounds amazing.
VI: Yeah, it was… I really quite like it. It doesn’t unfortunately offer for you the video part, but it’s very, very affordable, like $10 a month for scheduling and the payment and the receipts. I think you get a good deal.
CC: You’re using that for scheduling. What are you using for the video connection?
VI: What I’m using for my video connection would probably not be allowed in US [chuckle] because we don’t have regulations in Canada and the Canadian Council. We don’t have regulation that has to be encrypted, that are HIPAA-complaint. It’s absolutely up to specific therapists. I ended up as result of me not finding the right platform, using Skype and FaceTime and even WhatsApp applications. [chuckle] I do have other… Now have options for people who want encrypted HIPAA-compliant video chat. Now I give options like that to a client, and the things that I use for that is… I’m just trying to look up for the name I wrote. Fliffr is one of the platforms I use. I don’t know if you’ve ever heard about Fliffr.
CC: No, spell that for me.
VI: Spell that for me, I wrote it down somewhere. I can’t find it.
[chuckle]
CC: That’s okay, we’ll get it from you later, and we’ll put it in the show notes. For those that do want HIPAA-compliant, you use that, whatever platform that is. Everything else is just Skype and Google Hangouts and FaceTime, that kind of thing?
VI: Yeah. It’s a Swedish startup. They have an app and a web-based thing. It’s very cool. There we go. It’s F… I can spell it right now if you like. F-L-I-F-F-E-R.
CC: Fliffer.
VI: Yeah.
[laughter]
CC: They’ve got a funny name, makes me laugh.
VI: Yes. I have a profile there. Then there’s another one which is a new online therapy platform as well called RingMD. Ring as R-I-N-G. MD, capital. They both have the web, as well as app. This one at the moment is completely free to use. You could have a profile on there. You could have a video chat, and some scheduling stuff. Their platform, I think it’s Singapore-based startup.
CC: I have heard of them. In fact, I’ve got an email from my friend Geoff Simons in the UK, and he is trying to set up a podcast for us to talk to RingMD. Everybody look for that coming up.
VI: Cool.
CC: Have you used Doxy.me? We just did an episode on Doxy.me. Have you used them?
VI: Yes. Actually, it’s one of the things that I tried on my journey to find something that would work. I really liked it. First of all, it’s free, so it’s quite a good platform. Did you try it yourself?
CC: Yes, and I really do like it. But for those that are looking for an all-in-one, their thing is that they wanna keep it simple. You use your scheduler, you use your payment platform, whatever you typically do, and they provide, on their free version, only the video, audio connection. I think you can get the bells and whistles for the paid version, but…
VI: I think… No, that’s great!
CC: Yeah, and it’s pretty reasonable too. If you pay monthly, and they can get you all those other things too. I’ve been pretty impressed with them.
VI: Okay, because I have tried to… My clients through… To talk to my clients, and they had technical difficulties once it’s installed… That was the one thing that kinda was… I think turned me off ’cause if you have Skype running or anything running, it would interfere. For the clients who are not techie, I have to explain to them that he’d have to shut this off, restart the computer. It just can create extra obstacles for those.
CC: Interesting. That’s a good… Okay.
VI: That was just my experience. Maybe other people have probably positive experience, and they should definitely continue using this amazing application.
CC: But I think that that is a really good example that every therapist has different needs of what they are looking for, for a platform. You have to really go… It’s like a shoe store. Go try on the different online therapy platforms, and see what fits for you. There’s several out there that are HIPAA-compliant and encrypted. That’s a good example of not giving up. I just gotta go find something that’s gonna work for me.
VI: Yeah, absolutely. I agree.
CC: And you make a good point that outside the US, Skype… If you’re not bound by the HIPAA law, you’re not a licensed therapist in the United States, the Skype and Google Hangouts and FaceTime, they’re all encrypted. They just don’t offer this business associate agreement that allows you to be compliant with the HIPAA law. If you don’t need to be compliant with HIPAA law, it doesn’t matter.
VI: Yes. [chuckle] As an online therapist, it gives me more flexibility, I guess.
CC: Yeah. Tell me a little bit about how you have built up your practice, the marketing aspect, and how are things going for you now almost a year in?
VI: I feel like they’re going good. I made a lot of progress in the last few months, in terms of building my practice. I started a YouTube channel just three months ago. That was one of the things in my list that I really wanted to do as part of having online presence. It’s called Team Viktoria. I thought of starting a channel as part of marketing. I started because it’s an opportunity to reach out to many people and get myself out there, get more exposure, bring traffic to the website; but it’s also… Another motivation was, just to share the knowledge with people that I have accumulated, the wisdom from my life and my experience and my training. Because some people don’t know what therapy is about, maybe have obstacles connecting to online therapists. I wanted to offer some wisdom nuggets for free, where they could benefit.
CC: Wow, that’s amazing. So your YouTube channel is kind of a funnel. Do you use a video blog?
VI: In a way, I guess you could say it. I have episodes devoted to different themes, from how to use gratitude to how to regulate your feelings, for example.
CC: Has that been successful? Are you getting some traffic and clients from that?
VI: It’s just starting out, so it’s not running a crazy traffic yet, but it’s growing. Everything, anything online, you have to gain momentum. If you expect it to work just a month after you posted something, it might not be the right mindset. Sometimes you get lucky, but most of the time, you have to gain momentum. With any online marketing, whether it’s for social media or for podcast, you really have to have a little bit of patience in the beginning.
CC: Absolutely. What are some other things that you are doing that have been successful in bringing clients your way?
VI: Of course, I started with the classic, I got on quite a few of the directories that exist. Things like Psychology Today, Psych Central, CounselChat, considering joining TheraLife. RingMD is another one. I’ve got my profile there.
CC: Okay, good, good.
VI: Yeah, a lot of these things are… A lot of these directories… And yours. Of course, let’s not forget yours.
[laughter]
CC: Good, good, good.
VI: Which is like probably the most perfect fit for me because all the other ones, they target I think locals.
CC: Yeah, I think that’s the difficulty in some of the directories currently, is it that it is geolocated. It’s for Austin, Texas, and you’re gonna only be seen in Austin, Texas. Your practice is global, so it’s interesting that you… Are those directories being successful for you?
VI: Some. Some, I’d say, but I think again… I came across that challenge of, they want a therapist, somebody locally, somebody who they wanna see in person because quite often these request for you to include some address. You can’t even register without putting an address, and that shows up in your profile. Then even though you’re adding the profile and you’re online constantly, you still sometimes get contacts. For me, that frequently happens with Psychology Today because it is… Psychology Today is a good one for getting referrals and clients. But quite often, when they hear I just go online, they disappear. [chuckle]
CC: ‘Cause they’re looking for an in-person therapist instead of an online therapist.
VI: Yeah, yeah. That’s why I’m so excited about your directory because it’s considered to be online, and I know that people who are in there, they’re looking for online therapist.
CC: Thank you… That’s right.
VI: I think it’s a good match, it’s a perfect… You can find the perfect match on your… [chuckle]
CC: Yes, that’s our hope, is that we’re drawing people that are looking for you, for online therapist. Okay, we got the YouTube, we’ve got directories. What other things are you doing to market and bring clients to you?
VI: Of course, social media. Engaging the classics, the Facebook, the Twitter, the Instagram. Just posting some great articles, whether it’s… Some of those articles are the things that I researched and find online that could really be beneficial to people and others. My posts from my blog or my YouTube channel, so it’s a mixture of those things. I wanna… My confession is that I am not a big fan of social media. I don’t use it for my personal life. It was quite a transition for me, as part of becoming an online counselor, to get into social media. I had a lot of resistance. [chuckle]
CC: Interesting. To see the value of it and go, “I don’t wanna do this, but I know I need to.”
VI: Yeah, no, I had quite a struggle myself over it. I kinda felt like it was gonna overwhelm me. But once I found certain tools… Like Buffer, for example, is a platform that allows you to post on social media by scheduling it, and it will automatically post for you on the day that you schedule it for.
CC: So you can…
VI: That’s why I found…
CC: You can do it a lot, and then… A bucket of time, and then schedule it so that it goes out kind of piecemeal.
VI: Absolutely, yes. I can do… Spend a couple of hours once a week, and then they’ll just post automatically on all the platforms I want, and I don’t have to think about it. [chuckle]
CC: Nice. Okay, good, good, good.
VI: It helped me manage my anxiety. Things like Hootsuite and Buffer are great tools for that, and they’re very…
CC: I’ve heard of Hootsuite, and I think it’s Meet Edgar or My Friend Edgar. Then Buffer is a new one. Those are great tools.
VI: There’s so many nowadays. [chuckle]
CC: Yeah. So social media. Also, I imagine your website because you’ve got a great website, with a great name…
VI: Thank you. Thank you.
CC: Globaltherapy.online, instead of dot com, which just really clarifies what you do in your domain names. Great choice for a domain name.
VI: Thank you. I appreciate it. I struggle with picking that one. [laughter]
CC: It’s hard, isn’t it, to find the exact right name?
VI: Yeah.
CC: Do you get a lot of traffic to your website?
VI: I’m really just starting to learn Google Analytics to really make sure that I’m getting the traffic. As I said, it’s quite new for me, learning all these elements. I’m gonna have to… I don’t think I could reply to that question.
CC: Yeah. Absolutely, that’s okay.
VI: I’m not totally knowledgeable about this, I’ll be honest. [chuckle]
CC: I’m so impressed with you that you are embracing the different tools, social media, technology, and saying, “I’m learning, I’m in the process of learning.” Hopefully, that’s inspiring to some of our listeners. You can jump into the deep end of this, and you kind of figure it out as you go. The tools are there to help you. Some of them are going to be a good fit, some of them aren’t, but you have to be brave enough, I think, to be a beginner, and say, “I’m going to figure this out slowly, I’m not gonna have to figure it out.” Here you are in the Philippines with a practice, one year in, and you’re just now kinda figuring out Google Analytics. I think that that’s beautiful. I’ve not tried Instagram yet, and you’ve got tools to help with your posting across different platforms, so it’s pretty impressive.
VI: Thank you.
CC: You have kind of a niche, especially working with expats, is that accurate to say?
VI: Yeah, it’s one of the populations that I’m working with, is expats, absolutely. That kinda… Being an expat myself, moving countries twice, I feel like I have an insight, an experience to offer that population, to help them…
CC: Yeah, what’s that population… What are they like? I know you can’t generalize across, but what are some of the common themes that you’re seeing? ‘Cause they fascinate me.
VI: Yeah, I hear you. I would say there’s a very strong two themes that show up. One of them… I even wrote an article about it. One of them is, when a couple usually moves abroad because one of the partners gets a job, a good-paying job, usually, the other partner often has to put their career on hold because only one of them gets a job abroad. As a result, when they move, the other partner becomes a stay-at-home wife or husband, whatever that might be. So online therapy is really the only options they have to receive counseling.
VI: That starts to create this dynamic, that maybe they were not used to. Maybe some even power dynamics that are unusual. The partner who stays at home with the kids is now isolated from their social network, from their supports; whereas the partner who goes to work usually adapts quicker because they meet a lot of people who work. We’re starting to have this difference of experience. Then, of course, there are other stressors that can be introduced, the foreign country, foreign language, difficulty making connections. That’s gonna be… That stress is gonna be absorbed by the couple. Then it can create quite a bit of tension. The person who stays at home might start complaining, “You’re working too much, I don’t see you.” They might feel quite maybe bored even. They’re maybe not getting enough support from their working spouse. This is kind of the classic that we might see happening in a couple. The result of transition.
CC: Wow. Yeah, I read a statistic that between 16% and 40% of expat placements fail because of the stress on the family and…
VI: Wow, that’s a very significant number. Yeah.
CC: Yeah. It’s just too hard living abroad, and the impact on the… Some people thrive with it, and some people are just really struggling. Now do you advertise at all on some of the expat websites? I know that there’s a lot of websites out there to support these individuals and families. Is that a driving tool for you?
VI: Yeah, I think it’s called Online Directory, is the one… Onlinedirectory.org or something. This one, one of the ones I advertise on.
CC: What was that one again?
VI: I think it’s called Online Directory. I’m just gonna look it up, onlinedirectory.org… Yes, absolutely, it’s… I advertise through that, as well as, locally, I go to networking events and I meet a lot of expats, and just the word of mouth is also a big attraction. Especially here in Manila, there’s really no therapists. I think it’s a great way to put your face in front of people as a part of attracting clients.
CC: Absolutely. That’s interesting that even in Manila, it comes down to networking and face-to-face time and building those relationships in person, in real life.
VI: Absolutely. Yeah, I would say definitely. I think it works like that everywhere, right?
CC: Yeah.
VI: When you meet somebody and you trust them, and naturally develops that connection.
CC: Yeah, incredible. This has been really valuable information, some really interesting tools and tips, and we’ll put those in the show notes for everybody. Any final thoughts, Viktoria, on your journey to being an online therapist? The ups, the downs, the benefits, challenges, anything that maybe we didn’t cover today?
VI: We’ve covered quite a lot, I agree. I would say that for somebody who’s considering being a therapist online, I would suggest, give it a try because I know some people are very resistant to technology, and just might not feel right, but I would say don’t judge it right away. Give it a try and give it more than just one session. You can provide… Give a free consultation to new potential client through it, or explore if one of your clients wanna try it. Yeah, just give it a few times before you make it or call about it for yourself because you might be surprised, and after a few online therapy sessions, it might feel quite natural.
VI: I would suggest that. For people who might not be… Might already start it and looking for a way to grow, I wanna mention something I haven’t mentioned in terms of attracting traffic. I haven’t started doing it yet actively, but this is my next step, which is I’m learning right now about. But Pinterest, apparently, is a really great way to get traffic to your website, and to market yourself.
CC: I’ve heard that, I have heard that. In fact, I’ve got a friend who’s a food blogger and he swears by Pinterest.
VI: Absolutely.
CC: Alright. Viktoria, you go and you play in Pinterest, and see if it works, then we’ll have you back on. You’ll be our guinea pig, and see if this is gonna bring clients to you.
VI: Okay. I will gladly play that guinea pig for this, and I will try it out and let you know. I will keep you updated.
CC: Yeah, I think the thing that a lot of therapists… But maybe just me, but I get overwhelmed with, “Okay, I gotta do Facebook and now I’ve gotta learn Twitter, now I’ve gotta learn Instagram, and now Pinterest, and what’s the next thing?” It can be a bit overwhelming, I think. You’re inspiring here that you’re dipping your toe in these things and seeing what works.
VI: I find it exactly the same way, but I kinda have been pushing myself because I have to explore new niches. Just to make it more complicated, just a few days ago, I heard about a new social media, so to speak, called StumbleUpon. You can add that to your list.
CC: Oh my goodness. [chuckle] Okay, we’re gonna have you part two, okay? In a few months, we’ll come back to you and see how things are going. [chuckle]
VI: I better start getting home to my practicing it more. [chuckle]
CC: Good. Viktoria, it’s been an absolute pleasure. For those that want to get in touch with her, her website again is globaltherapy.online. Viktoria, thank you so much for spending time with us today.
VI: Thank you so much, Clay. It was truly a pleasure talking to you. I look forward to being here again. [chuckle]
CC: Good.