Episode 29 – Web Design for Online Therapy with Kat Love

Episode 29 – Web Design for Online Therapy with Kat Love

August 8, 2017

Welcome to the Online Counselling Podcast. Exploring the practice of counseling through technology.  Here’s your host, Clay Cockrell.

Clay Cockrell: Hello and welcome to the Online Counselling Podcast. I hope you’re having a great day. I’m so thankful that you are choosing to spend some time with us and learn about online counseling. The ins and outs of taking your practice online and serving your clients in a new and convenient way. Lots of great things happening over at a directory. If you haven’t had the chance to check out the online therapy directory, please head on over to onlinecounselling.com. We have all sorts of tools and recommendations and resources for you, and our list of certified therapists are growing. We have I think about 140 therapist signed up so far. We still have a few states that I’m trying to get. So, again, anybody know of a therapist in North Dakota who’s doing online counseling, please send them my way. My goal is to have at least two in each state in the next few weeks. California, we have I think 14, 16 maybe. Florida is growing. Lots of states that have one or two. So, we’re getting there. We’re beginning to expand in the UK and Canada. Just had our first Australian sign up, very cool. It’s global thing. We’re getting there.

Somebody contacted me and said, “Why should I join this directory? You’re really new and pretty small so far.” And you know what? They have a good point. We are not Psychology Today directory. They seem to be of course the big dog on the block. We are small and new. But I think that’s a good thing because there really isn’t a lot of competition within your state. I mean I go on Psychology Today and looked in my zip code, not even my state, just my zip code, and there are thousands of therapists that are going for the same clients. Of course, I’m in New York.  There’s a lot of therapists in New York. But you go to your zip code, there’s going to be a lot of people there competing for the same client. Somebody goes on on our directory and says they’re looking for therapist in Colorado, there are only five or six in the entire state that have signed up so far. So, pretty good odds. We’re having about 60 to 70 people search the site each day. This is September 2016. So I’m not sure when you’re listening to this. But as of September in 2016, we’re hitting about 70 people a day. So for a small monthly fee, you can really grow your practice without a lot of competition. But we are growing. We’d love to have you come on and at the ground floor, as they say. So, there’s my call to action that my friend Joe Sanok says we must all have. Head on over to Online Therapy directory and check this out.

Speaking about calls to action, and all things web related, I am thrilled to have Kat love of Kat Love Designs as my guest today. They specialize in gorgeous and custom web designs for psychotherapists. They’re experts in getting your message out to the world and reaching your client just in a right and personal way. Kat, in this interview, was incredibly generous in telling her story and how online therapy helped her from the client’s perspective and how they are a great advocate for online therapy. I’m just incredibly privileged to get to know so many high quality people in our field. She is certainly one of them. Kat’s passion for us therapists is so real and giving and poignant. I just know you’re going to love getting to know Kat Love of Kat Love Designs. So, here she is.

Clay: Okay! Welcome to the Online Counselling Podcast. I am thrilled to have a new friend on the show today. I think we met through Selling the Couch or her numerous online profiles and community groups you’re involved in. Welcome, Kat Love.

Kat Love: Thank you! So glad to be here.

Clay: And you are talking to us from Greece, right?

Kat: Yes that’s’ true.

Clay: I think it’s so cool that you really are a citizen of the world. You just got back from California where I think you’re basically from. But you split your time in Greece, and you work from wherever you’re sitting really right?

Kat: Yeah. Right. So that’s the beauty of being a web designer and having an online business as you can just really go wherever you want to go and work from your laptop.

Clay: I love it. So many of the therapists I’m talking to in the podcast are thinking, “I love to travel. This is the way I can.” The idea that my wife and I spent six weeks in Rome a couple of years ago. I was able to see my clients and then go out to see the Colosseum and the Vatican and all that kind of stuffs. So it’s kind of pretty cool life we’ve got, right?

Kat: Yeah. Totally.

Clay: So tell me how you came to website design and some of your philosophy.

Kat: Yeah. Sure. I started doing web design a long time ago. Before I was doing website design for other people, I was doing it for myself in my previous business. That’s how I picked it out.  I just needed a website and I decided to take up writing code and doing the design myself. I just noticed it was something that I was really having a lot of fun with it. I would just spend like hours on tweaking things and researching. Like oh how do I do this and how do I do that? It’s just this magic like you know act of solving problems and like it’s like little puzzles that you guys have to put together. So yeah I started that maybe in the early 2000s. And then, recently, when it came time for me to find a new career, I decided to do website design for other people. And then I also quickly niched down to doing psychotherapy website specifically.

Clay: So what drew you to that niche? What drew you to the psychotherapist and working primarily with them?

Kat: I think I was fortunate to get in touch with a really talented WordPress developer early on and kind of picked their brain for advice. They were saying it’s really important to find a niche and not to be kind of this general website designer that just does everything from like dog walker website, like a tech startup. So I was really lucky to get that advice. When I sat and just kind of thought about it, I really felt passionate about finding a group of people that were doing important things in the world. I just thought about my own experience. I’m a childhood sexual abuse survivor and I’ve had my own amazing healing through psychotherapy services. And so it kind of wasn’t no brain at that point because I was like okay I want to make website for people that are doing awesome things and I know that therapists are superheroes. So it just all came together and I decided to do that.

Clay: Therapists are superheroes. I love that.

Kat: They are.

Clay: Yeah. For someone who sees the power and respects what we as a profession do and want to say “Hey I want to help.” That’s a beautiful thing.

Kat: Thank you.

Clay: So how long have you been working primarily with psychotherapists?

Kat: For a little bit over a year.

Clay: Okay. I’ve seen samples of your work and it’s gorgeous. But it’s interesting. They’re all different. You can’t say, “Oh that’s a Kat Love Design. Oh I can tell Kat Love did it.” I have been looking at hundreds of therapists websites as I’m trying to reach out and build the directory and there’s so many bad therapists sites out there. So many of them look alike. Yours seem to capture the voice, the persona of the therapists. How do you do that?

Kat: First of all, thank you so much for those kind words. That’s a huge compliment. I mean I think for me, it’s interesting that you say that it captures the persona of the therapists because my approach is more so from the client’s side. When I worked with therapists, I’m trying to find kind of that sweet spot between what the clients need in that moment that they’re suffering and trying to find therapy and what the therapist is offering. That sweet overlap between the client’s needs and the practitioner’s services is like where all the magic happens.

Clay: Wow.

Kat: In terms of website, it’s just a matter of bringing that out.

Clay: You think of why a person has found that website. They are in pain. They are maybe even desperate. Maybe they just found out their husband is cheating or they just cannot tolerate the depression anymore. They are in a certain state, right? So, you’re speaking to that state. But you are also putting a voice to the person who has the answer and can guide them through that. So that kind of  mutual goals that come together. That makes sense.

Kat: Exactly. Yeah, exactly.

Clay: So what’s it like working with therapists? Because I remember working with my first website designer, I think I drove her crazy. Tweaking the colors and the fonts and I want this different picture. I think they were very detailed oriented people. What’s it like for you working with us?

Kat: I love it. You guys are my favorite. I do think that you guys are superheroes. I feel like anything that I can do to help you connect with your ideal clients is amazing. I also do love kind of being that what kind of web designer that can guide my clients. So I don’t ever expect therapists to know all the terminology or have complete clarity around the website strategy. I consult with my clients on that so I’m not just you know pushing pixels around. It’s a lot much deeper process that I go into with my clients. I think that helps a lot with that sense of just being stressed out and overwhelmed when it comes to your website.

Clay: Yeah. I guess I would love working with you. You just going to take you by the hand and go “It’s okay. We’re going to figure this out together.”

Kat: Yeah. Exactly.

Clay: Good. So, how long typically, I know everything’s different, but how long does it take for you from first contact? I call you and say, “I want to redo you my website or maybe I need a first time website.” How long from that call to launch typically does it take?

Kat: Usually from web strategy and web design all the way to development and launch, that process takes me about four to six weeks depending on what is included in your project. But I have to also mention that a lot of people don’t realize that in order for website design to be successful, it needs to be based around your website content. So if you don’t have your content written and you’re reaching out to me before you have written your content or worked with a copy writer, then that will add however many weeks you need to accomplish your content.

Clay: That kind of segues into the idea of search engine optimization because there’s a lot of beautiful websites out there that no one will ever see because they’re not optimized for Google to find them. So do you offer that any kind of guidance for search engine optimization and the key words and the metatags and all those type of things? Do you provide that?

Kat: That is a separate job than website design. So website design handles is kind of like a visual communication of your solution. I also do the builds. So it’s like the tech side, the code side. That does have to do with SEO on a lot of levels as well in terms of making sure that your website is scrollable, that everything has a correct mark up. But when it comes to content side SEO like what you’re saying like keyword strategy or competitive analysis, things like that are highly specific to that type of SEO. So I always recommend that my clients and therapists that are trying to get seen online if they want to focus on SEO as essential part of their mark on my marketing strategy that they would actually seek out a dedicated SEO for that.

Clay: Do you have people that you would recommend that you’ve worked with?

Kat: Yeah.

Clay: So you can kind of “We’re finished with my part. It’s beautiful. Now, I’m going to hand you over. Here’s some people that I trust that are going to help you get ranked so that this tool begins to work for you.”

Kat: Right. It’s not ever one and done type of process. SEO is an ongoing process and a lot of it now we’re seeing shift towards content marketing. So things like blogging and social media and any other type of content like podcast or video marketing like all of these types of content really influence how you get ranked. It’s not just a matter of hiring somebody paying them a onetime fee, optimizing your site one time and then you’re good to go. It’s going to be an ongoing process.

Clay: I miss those days when it’s just a beautiful thing and I put it up there and I do a little tweaking in the back end and people start pouring in. Now, it’s a living, breathing conversation I think that you’re having with the people that you’re meeting online which is great. It’s a lot of work.

Kat: Yeah. No, it is. But it does serve the clients better I think because I think in the past you did… I mean this is why Google changed its algorithm and other search engines changed the way that they rank people or rank sites is because the people, not so good people, would just stuff a page full of keywords and get to the top of the page and it was just selling golden watches or something like that. So, to avoid that and to make sure that searcher are getting the best possible and most relevant content on the web, they have to keep on finding new ways of kind of qualifying the pages, land up on the first page of a search result for a query.

Clay: You really do have to keep up on the changes Google. Because when I first started, it was all about links, and so you can go to a link farm and buy five thousand links for fifty bucks. That was great. So, I’m all over it. I get all of these links. They changed it and they turned those into toxic links. If they’re linking to your page, then Google just dings you and you go right to the bottom. And I’m like, why am I not getting any calls anymore? They did. It’s called a toxic backlink. You have to do a cleanup and it’s so expensive to get rid of those links. So, working with the professionals so you don’t do it poorly is really important. So, this is the Online Counselling Podcast and I think you have a beautiful story of working online. What is your experience with online therapy?

Kat: Yeah. So that’s actually really interesting. I get really excited about therapy in general but also about specifically online therapy because I’ve had my own experience with it. So I moved to Greece about seven years ago, and although I go back and forth, I’m not in California for significant amount of time to really dig in, to doing any healing work with a therapist. At some point when I think three or four years after I’ve moved here, I really just had this need to start therapy again. It was this case of like I could’ve found somebody locally. But I wasn’t sure I would find somebody that’s speaks English. I wasn’t sure if I could find somebody y who’s kind of like familiar or maybe even American cause I feel like there has to be a kind of cultural fluency as well as language fluency. And then I also, being a sexual abuse survivor, really wanted somebody that was trained in sexual trauma therapy. And so it was just a no brainer again that I would just have to seek out and online therapist.

My first idea actually was just to contact my previous therapist that I had been working within California. The funny thing is that she wasn’t an online therapist. She was just doing face to face sessions. But when I asked her, she was open to it and I’m really, really glad that she was because I was able to continue the therapeutic relationship with her online and do some really massive, massive healing work with her.  I’m a huge fan and I also wanted to mention like this is a niche opportunity like expats. I know from hanging out with expats here in Athens that there is a huge need for mental health within the expat community and also digital nomads as well. So people that are also like me and will travel and work with their laptop from different locations. This is a huge niche opportunity. So, yeah. Totally would recommend listeners to hop on those.

Clay: I read a statistic once that between 16 and 40 percent of expats have assignment failure. It doesn’t work out because the stress and anxiety of living abroad in a foreign culture, the stress on your family, the stress on yourself is just too much and to not have mental healthcare to help you walk through that is awful. To know that people that are trained, gifted, healers out there. There’s a community out there in pain and in need of your services and this is the only way that they’re going to be able to connect. That’s really important. So, tell me about this therapist in California? What was it like you think for her to go on a new and different way? Was there a learning curve?

Kat: Actually, not really. Sheila’s my kind of biggest therapist in my life prior to that, so we had a really really amazing relationship to start out with which really helped. I think kind of like there wasn’t any awkward period of like getting to know them or like getting to know her at all. It was just supernatural. I mean I think the only thing that we both had to deal with was if there was a… Like I remember there was once. Because I live on a Greek island and so sometimes there’s power outages and stuff like that or like the internet line will be down or even like the connection would just be bad and it just like cut off. I would be like crying or like really emotionally and then like she would just freeze. You know what I mean? Or like I just couldn’t hear her like a tech fail like in the middle of a session. Luckily, those types of situations we’re not common enough to be not beneficial. It’s still totally worth doing. But yeah. We kind of have to establish kind of like some like if this happens, then will just do this.

Clay: Plan B.

Kat: Right. Exactly. If my internet line would go down, I would still have 4G and so I could like just send her email and be like “Oh my internet is down, let’s reschedule.” Things like that.

Clay: It’s an accepted thing between the two of you, this could happen. We understand that it could happen, and we’re going to have a plan B. But, we understand that this basically a really good thing. But sometimes there’s a down side. So it’s kind of both of you understanding what could happen.

Kat: Right. And also I think it helps that I was very early adopter of things of like video conferencing I mean just because of being an expat. Speaking with my family and friends back home, a lot of times, it will be on Skype. Speaking with my clients, my website design clients, is on Skype. So, I kind of already knew the terrain of what complications can come up.

Clay: Right. Okay. One other question. You established a relationship with this therapist, very important person in your life. Now you’re continuing the process online. Was it different? Was it a lack of connection or was there an adjustment period for you in your connection with your therapist?

Kat: Not really. I feel, it might just be me that I might super comfortable because I’m like a nerd and like into all this tech stuff. I’m very used to be on camera and voice with people. Actually, if anything, I was a little bit surprised of how well it went. I thought it was going to be harder to make that connection and harder to express myself and harder to just like open up to a screen. These are the things that I was imagining before I started that would be complicated or difficult and they weren’t at all.  Actually, I also remember she was really good at still like reading my emotions. So like I would like have something coming up for me or like feel some pain in my body. And she would be like “I can tell something’s coming up for you.” I don’t know if that’s because our relationship was so good or because she was actually able to kind of like to feel and see through video and voice. But whatever it was, I mean it was amazing and awesome. Better than I’ve ever expected.

Clay: That’s great. I just want to acknowledge and thank you for sharing that part of your story. I think that’s valuable to our listeners. So thank you. Tell me. Let’s get to some website ideas and what are some top things that therapists should be considering when looking at a website either creation or a redesign?

Kat: The place that I always like recommend a therapist start even if they’re doing a redesign and even if they’ve been on practice for a while is just taking a step back and making sure that they’re really clear about who they serve and where they are and their solutions for who they serve. Because these are both vital pieces of information for a successful website design. You really need to know these things so that you can create a space for that person. Kind of like what you were saying earlier with like this potential therapy client coming to your website, they’re in a place of extreme suffering. They’re might be in a really dark place. They might be experiencing grief, shock, all of these really deep emotions. If you know your ideal client and where they’re coming from in that moment, you can really create a space for them. You can really also highlight what it is that you have to offer them when they’re in that space and make sure that that comes through on your website.

Clay: Okay. Great! You’ve talked a lot about niche that is important that therapist have a particular population that they worked with and that’s not limiting. So, what’s your experienced in working with therapists and trying to explain that concept?

Kat: I love talking about niche because I feel like it is so important. But at the same time if you want to go through a process of discovering your niche or figuring out how to discover your niche, because I know sometimes it’s a process to get there of like narrowing things down, you probably want to talk to like a business coach or like a private practice coach around that and do some discovery work with them. I do still have these conversations very often with clients and also very often with therapists that have become friends of mine. I just really recommend it. In terms of creating a website, it just helps it not be such not be so general and it helps with your marketing too. Not only your marketing that you’re doing from your website. But marketing you’re doing online. Marketing that might be doing in the community if you are doing a community marketing because you have such specificity that your memorable. You can find referral sources easier. It’s just everything’s better with a niche.

Clay: I love that. Every time I think about niche, I think about Buck Black who the trucker therapist is. I did a podcast interview with him. His niche is long haul truckers. The crisis of being away from their family and isolated and of course driving a truck. It’s a whole population. He goes to trucker conventions, and of course they all have to be online because they’re traveling. So they pull over to a rest area and they have the session right there. I just think that that was a brilliant niche. He’s a good guy.

Kat: That is awesome. That is so cool.

Clay: He’s just known as the trucker therapist. He knows everything about the industry because he’s not a trucker himself but he’s always fascinated. So to understand what you’re fascinated by as a therapist and what you have in affinity for, that kind of gives you an idea of what direction to go in.

Kat: Right. I love that he is able to then seek out this marketing opportunities that he wouldn’t otherwise be able to find. Like going to a truckers convention is not something that a generalist therapist would do. That’s a random place for them to be but it totally makes sense if you’re niching that way.

Clay: Absolutely. He has a little booth on the side. He is something else. So, tell me. What are some thoughts that an online therapist should be considering? Any kind of tips or ideas to our listeners who are starting an online therapy practice and looking at their websites?

Kat: I think that it’s really important to consider that your website needs to be strategic. Part of that strategy I already discussed when I was talking about kind of creating a space for that client and knowing who they are. That will help you do things like pick design elements and photos that really speak to them. But another part of it too is positioning yourself as the guider, the one that’s going to guide them through what it is they’re dealing within their life. But also what it is that they’re going to do next on your website. Thinking in terms of the goal of the website is probably for you to get one on one clients, online therapy clients. So what you do is you think about how each page can play a part in helping that website visitor become a client. Usually this involves something called calls to action. A call to action is simply just an invitation for your website visitor to take the next step, to take the next logical step. So maybe from the homepage, you want to invite your website visitor to check out your services or to read more about you and about your services. So that would be like links to the About page or links to services pages that might speak directly to them. And then from those pages, you might extend an invitation for them to pick up the phone or schedule that first fifteen minute consultation. So, there again it’s like about a little bit of clarity on what it is that your website visitor to deal when they first reach out to you and just making sure you really communicate that clearly so they know exactly what it is to do to take that next step.

Clay: Absolutely. I  think your big proponent of creating credibility and trust and to convey that and it’s even heightened I think for people working online because it’s something new and maybe not for our millennials out there because they were born with the internet already cranking up. But to someone else, you really need to know that this is safe, it’s confidential. So thoughts on that.

Kat: That’s a huge one. I think it’s unfortunately something that is a big mistake a lot of times since psychotherapy websites that not enough attention is paid to making sure that the website makes the clinician look very credible. It’s true that what you’re saying about how important it is because the healing that you’re going to do with your client actually starts online. It starts when they start seeing your post on social media or they get a referral from someone. They typed in your URL and to the box and up pops your website. That whole experience is part of the relationship that you’re going to have with this person. It’s really important that website, your website is credible.

Clay: I keep hearing that the conversation begins before the first call. And then I get people that will contact me and they’ve already read blog posts. They’ve seen interviews. They kind of know my irreverent style and so they’ve gotten to know me before I’ve gotten to know them, which is really advantageous I think. It helps build that rapport. It’s the conversation. They need to understand your voice into approach right away.

Kat: Right.

Clay: So cool. Okay, here’s a question. I’ll ask it anyway. Kay an online therapist wants to integrate their portal onto their website. I think its Stephanie Cook in Atlanta, whom you go to her online counseling page to book a session or to have a session and the portal is right there. So it’s integrated right into that page. I think she’s using Counsel. I’m assuming you could do that as well to make it look seamless that you’re actually seeing the patient on your website.

Kat: Actually, there’s a lot of really exciting things happening right now in terms of APIs which allow different pieces of software to talk to each other and different things like you windows into portals or embedding different types of technologies into one another. I’m super excited actually about all of this like new stuff because I feel like it can really help people. Something like what you’re describing where the portal could be directly on your website. That’s awesome because I think one of the great things about your website is a space you can create. So unlike directory profile or social media, it’s like you have, you put your content on those pages. You don’t create those pages. But your website you can create the entire experience. You can create you know the colors and the photos and the layouts and the space. You can make it so comfortable and inviting for your website visitor. If you could also integrate your entire online counseling experience and tied it all together, that’s exciting. That’s really amazing.

Clay: I just thought that it upped her credibility when you think of the client going through this process to have to go to a third party and download something or create an account. It’s right there. It just made her look so much more professional and on it and tech savvy because it was all integrated right there in her site. It was like her office, right? That’s her office is right there online. I thought it was beautiful. Cool. So you’re working with a lot of clients right now. Are you seeing that more and more therapist are working online or incorporating that aspect into their practice?

Kat: Well, since I’ve only been working for a little bit over a year. I don’t know that I can comment on any type of significant growth like from twelve months ago to now. But I think that I have been excited about the number of therapists that are open and interested in online therapy and not only therapists that are interested in doing an online therapy practice but ones that have been doing face to face practice that are now starting to use online therapy as well. Either with existing clients like client will travel or they will travel or the therapist will travel and then they can still meet with their clients. So not having just a completely a hundred percent online that kind of integration of the technology in their current practice. That’s been really cool to see.

Clay: Cool. That’s it. I always like to hear insider’s thoughts because you got your finger on a pulse I think of what’s happening in the field. So just kind of wrapping things up. I thought about, what about common mistakes or maybe the worst mistakes that therapists make when you look at their website? Just a couple that you go “Here’s something that you want to make sure you avoid.”

Kat: Right. Well, I think kind of going back to credibility. Some of the things like credibility mistakes. Having professional design can really boost your credibility. That’s also a mistake I see a lot where therapists are trying to DIY their website and it just doesn’t come across as professional. Or they’re going like a really budget option and it’s just doesn’t come across as professional. I think taking that when you’re able to making that investment into professional level website design can really help you avoid that mistake. Another mistake would be… Well in terms of credibility it’s really important to have photos of yourself on your website. I am surprised of the number of therapists that don’t have photos or they have like really bad photos like grainy and it’s like a crop from like an event like their cousin’s wedding or something like that. Have a really professional photo of yourself taken and put up prominently on your About page and maybe a few other pages. So that’s a mistake that you can avoid.

Also another mistake I see all the time as really important not to make is making sure you are really easy to contact. So, what does that mean? It means have your phone number. If you’re someone that’s being contacted by phone, have your phone number on every page. There’s no reason that you need to hide your phone number underneath five widgets and a sidebar on the contact page or something like that. You should have it on the contact page as well. But it also needs to be on every page. If you’re using email address, same thing. If you’re using like an online scheduler, same thing. Whatever way that people reach out to you and schedule appointments to be really prominently displayed. Consistently on every page of your site.

Clay: I kid you not. I went to a therapist website. I won’t say who. They have all these great, I mean tons of content, blogs and information about them. I went to okay I want to contact them. There was no contact form. There was no email address. There was no phone number. I’m thinking “Are you just playing at this? Why do all this work and then there is no way.” There was an address. So I guess I could write you a letter or show up at your office and knock on your door. But there was no, and I looked for it. I know I’m missing it. I know it’s here. Of course it’s got to be. There was no email address. There was no phone number. I could have written them a letter.  But that was the only way I was going to contact this guy. But okay. Alright.

Kat: That’s definitely another thing. So while you’re looking for that phone number and you start to go through this whole thing of like “Oh I must be stupid, I can’t find the phone number, where is it?” And you’re like clicking around and it’s taking forever and your frustration is rising. If you can imagine that situation happening when somebody is looking for therapy services and probably in a crisis situation where they’re already suffering, they really don’t need that. Making it easy for them is definitely a priority.

Clay: This is maybe too tech for maybe some of our listeners.  I think it’s probably too tech for me, but it’s just that I’ve read this yesterday, that Google is beginning to ding people for interstitials.

Kat: I don’t even know how to pronounce that. I know what you’re talking about though.

Clay: Like I don’t know what this is and it’s like a big word. I want to make sure that I don’t have one. Is that the little pop ups of one of the loan mowers, sign up for my newsletter or something?

Kat: Right, I haven’t actually read in depth. I just kind of also browsed some articles on that. It’s basically Google is starting to penalize websites that have pop up ads or even I think… No, I’m not sure about that so I’m not going to say that. Pop up ads for anything that can be, it doesn’t matter what content is within the pop up. But there are particular types that they’re looking at. I think it’s the one that fills up the entire page and block content and require you to interact with it. Sort of like it’s in front of the content and doesn’t let you get to unless you know push the x button or something like that the second that you land on the website. There might be a few other ones. I think it also has to do with like percentage of the page that it covers. It’s actually kind of awesome because it’s again standing up for the clients and standing up for the website people that are browsing the web and saying you know stop marketing yourself in very aggressive ways. You don’t need to do that.

Clay: Absolutely. You don’t do that in relationship and this is going to be a relationship. But I thought since I had you here, I will pick your brain on this thing. It’s really scary. I want to make sure I don’t have that and I don’t.

Kat: No. Most therapists website don’t have it. So that’s good.

Clay: One thing that we don’t have to worry about.

Kat: Cute. Take that off the list.

Clay: Okay. It’s been absolute pleasure talking with you. Any final thoughts you want to leave us with?

Kat: I want to tell every therapist out there listening that you’re awesome and you’re awesome. I was actually thinking I feel like a lot of therapists when they deal with technology stuff and website stuff and kind of like what you were just mentioning now with like reading this website or reading this article about Google’s going to do this and I don’t even understand these words. I know for myself sometimes when I’m encountering information I don’t completely understand, I might start kind of get like triggered with like “Oh I’m not worthy or I’m not smart or I can’t understand this. What does that mean about me? Is everyone going to laugh at me?” So it can really like trigger all these fears but every therapist is like super smart, super compassionate. I know from working with a lot of them that they just care a lot. They have huge hearts and I mean it.  I mean when I say you’re awesome. So you’re awesome. Don’t worry so much and we’ll take care of it.

Clay: What a great, great message. I hope we put some smiles on people’s faces. Kat Love of Kat Love Design. You’re at KatLove.com. We’re going to have all that in show notes and there’s also two ways to follow you online so we’ll put it all that there. Thank you so much for joining us.

Kat: Thank you, Clay.

Clay: Thank you so much for joining us.