Clay: Hello and welcome to episode 13 of the Online Counselling Podcast. This is the podcast where we talk about all things online counseling and telemental health. We go behind the scenes with therapists and coaches who are working in the virtual world and we talk to the leaders of the industry about regulations and upcoming legislation that is going to affect us all. I’ve always wanted to make sure that we have a global approach to this podcast and today, we are talking with Hani Abughazaleh. Yes, I had to practice that name. Hani is the CEO of fadfid.com.
Fadfid is an online platform bringing mental health counseling to the Middle East. Their current particular focus is on Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates, but they are all over the Middle East. They were the first platform where clients can find a therapist through their directory, book a session, have the session through their secure technology and pay for the session all in one place. They were the first one in the Middle East to do that. Fadfid is about 1.5 years old and I have to say, it was fascinating talking with the CEO of a startup company with this focus and located in a challenging area of the world.
I learned a lot. I hope you do too. Be sure to follow us on Facebook at the Online Counselling Podcast and on Twitter, @oncounselling. Please rate the podcast and subscribe so you won’t miss a single episode. We want to hear from you so please leave comments and questions. Okay, enough with the promo, on to Hani Abughazaleh, the CEO of Fadfid.
Hello and welcome to the Online Counselling Podcast. My name is Clay Cockrell and I am very thrilled that we have our next guest. His name is Hani Abughazaleh and he is with fadfid.com. Hani, thank you for joining us and welcome to the podcast.
Hani: Thank you so much, Clay. It’s a pleasure to be with you today.
Clay: Tell me a little bit about your relationship with Fadfid and what it does.
Hani: Yeah. Fadfid is a startup. I am the CEO of Fadfid and what we are, we are an online counseling and coaching platform. We connect beneficiaries with licensed psychologists from around the Middle East.
Clay: I see. How long has Fadfid been going on?
Hani: We were established about 1.5 years ago. Since then, we’ve worked on building the platform, technology wise, and very, very soon, we actually started providing advertising in the number of psychologists sought.
Clay: A year and a half, this is a startup.
Hani: Yeah, yeah. Exactly, given that this is a startup, there was a break in that year and a half to try to get enough funding to continue the operations, but I’m glad to say that we were able to secure that very recently, which means we’re back in business.
Clay: That’s wonderful. What is the thought behind this and how did you become involved? Is this your brainchild or did they bring you on to help start up?
Hani: Actually, I am not the original founder of Fadfid. I joined about a year ago. The reasoning behind is that the founders wanted someone with a little bit more experience to lead the company and that’s where I fit in.
Clay: Okay. I want to clarify, you’re not a therapist yourself. What has it been like for you to kind of enter this world? Is this your first time in the counseling world?
Hani: Definitely. Yes, I am not a therapist. I have a business background. I have an MBA and it has been a very interesting field, to say the least. There’s a lot to be learned from it and I actually like it. Yes, it has been very challenging trying to be part of this new area and there’s a lot to learn from it.
Clay: Yeah, a lot. Tell me about the marketplace. You are in the Middle East. What kind of geographic area are you trying to reach to and is it language based or geographically based?
Hani: Well, just to provide a little bit more clarification, Fadfid is a Delaware company. We’re US based company. Our operations are in the Middle East. Right now, we are focusing on the Middle East in general, but in particular, on Saudi Arabia and United Arab Emirates. Those are two big markets especially in ecommerce because ecommerce is still something relatively new here in the Middle East and those two countries are really the best when it comes to ecommerce penetration.
In regards to our service right now, it’s only in Arabic. Even our website right now is only in Arabic. We’re trying to expand that to create an English based version and also to attract English based psychologists because after all, I mean, the Middle East has Arabs and then Arabs. We’re trying to attract both beneficiaries.
Clay: Yeah. What do you think about the, because I recently did a podcast with Your Dost, which they are based in India, and they talked about the cultural difficulties of people who seek mental health treatment. Tell me a little bit about Saudi Arabia, the UAE. Is this common? Is this acceptable or are they also having difficulty in the acceptance of mental health care?
Hani: Yes, I mean, I would say we’re pretty similar to the case in India. I mean, there’s a huge stigma associated with psychotherapy services in the Middle East regardless of the context. People don’t really accept it very well because there is the misconception that if you want to meet with a therapist then you’re probably crazy or something is wrong with you. People do not realize the benefits of psychotherapy and that it’s really for everyone. You don’t really need to have like a deep problem to speak with a psychotherapist. People do not realize that and it’s really an uphill struggle to try to educate our beneficiaries about the benefits associated with such a service.
Clay: Yeah, it is an uphill battle even in the US. Being based in New York, everyone has a dog walker, a trainer, and a counselor. It’s just accepted here, but let’s say go to the Midwest, in the South, different parts of the US, there’s this stigma associated with it. Is part of Fadfid’s mission to combat that and perhaps normalize that this is something good for you and can help?
Hani: Exactly. I mean, what we’re trying to do, we’re trying to open up new opportunities for one thing, for psychologists because now, they have an opportunity to gain extra money from using our platform, at the same time, open up new opportunities for beneficiaries who, if they wanted to speak with a psychologist using the traditional way, using the way of freedom calling the clinic and scheduling an appointment and being physically there, they just cannot do it for whatever reasons that they have. It could be traveling reasons or whatever, so we’re trying to open up opportunities for them to speak with a licensed psychologist from the comfort and convenience of their home.
Clay: What I’m hearing so much is that one of the advantages of ecounseling or online therapy is that you have that privacy. No one is going to see you walking into a mental health clinic or to a psychiatrist’s office. Is that what you’re putting out there as well?
Hani: Exactly. We’re trying to push for that. I mean, the benefits are really important because there’s a huge lack of privacy when it comes to these things here in the Middle East and we’re trying to provide the solution for that problem.
Clay: You said this is a platform for both counseling and coaching. Is life coaching becoming more acceptable?
Hani: Coaching, well, I’m not sure how to answer that. I mean, it’s something new that you’re trying to get into. Unfortunately, I don’t really have a lot of details. I mean, we really haven’t had that yet as a session, coaching session, but it’s definitely something that we’re trying to expand to.
Clay: You say it’s a platform, but you also have therapists. Are they contracted with you, are they employees, or is this kind of a meeting place where therapists can connect with their patients? Tell me just the logistics behind your program.
Hani: Sure. It is a platform and the psychologists, they are contractors. They have the freedom to put the hours that they want. They charge whatever prices that they see fit for their sessions. We do not interfere in how they conduct sessions or who their customers are or whatever. They do have that complete freedom from being a contractor using our services.
Clay: This is similar to a Skype program, but it is a secured web conferencing tool. Is that accurate?
Hani: Exactly. We use technology integrated within fadfid.com. We do not use Skype or any similar other technology. That integration within our platform using secure communication is really what provides the privacy for our beneficiaries.
Clay: Okay. Is there some kind of screening process for you as a therapist would like maybe to join you to make sure that they are licensed, etc.?
Hani: Absolutely. This is something that we take very strictly. We receive many applications for psychologists, but we really have a very detailed and slow process to make sure that the information provided by the psychologist is accurate and it accurately represents him or her because after all, this is our responsibility towards our beneficiaries to provide them with that quality service that they are looking for.
Clay: Absolutely. These are people in pain, in need, and they want to be connected with someone who is going to meet that need.
Hani: Exactly.
Clay: I’m assuming then the client, the patient, there is not a fee from Fadfid to them, but do you take a percentage of the fee or is it a contract with the provider, with the psychologist?
Hani: Exactly. Between the company and the psychologist, we share a fee between us, yes.
Clay: Okay. That’s the business model.
Hani: Exactly.
Clay: Here in the US and I imagine around the world, there are some stumbling blocks in bringing mental healthcare to the online world as far as we have the HIPAA law and ethics that restrict many of the different professions providing counseling. One that has come up is that Skype is not compliant or a therapist cannot be HIPAA compliant with using a Skype connection. Are there similar regulations in the UAE, in Saudi Arabia, in the Middle East in general that you are coming up against?
Hani: Well, I have to say regulation, the United States is definitely the most difficult or the most comprehensive in comparison to other locations around the world. For example, things like HIPAA, it’s not really implemented here in the Middle East and it’s something very unique towards the United States. Nonetheless, we try to use as much as we can, for example, in our contract with the psychologists, we make sure to indicate that psychologist needs to meet the ethics standard set by the American Counseling Association and follow the highest standards, for example, when it comes to classifications such as diagnostic answers to combat mental disorder and the likes. We try to do our best to extract regulation per se or best practices from the US and try to implement that in our practice.
Clay: I see, so really using that as a template for your providers.
Hani: Exactly because ethics is a big area and it’s very importat area for us. [inaudible 14:53-15:05] our providers, psychologists to meet that standard.
Clay: It’s interesting. It seems like the connection that we are using right now and we’re having our conversation over Skype, it’s in and out just for that second. You mentioned before we started the call that the internet was not super strong where you are right now. Do you have or have some of your private providers talked about the difficulty and how does Fadfid meet that need to have a strong connection between the patient and provider?
Hani: You mean connection as telecommunication connection like speed or…? That’s definitely an issue in some locations here in the Middle East. However, we really try our best to give the greatest technologies when it comes to communication to make sure that we are providing the best available service. However, that’s why we have the option of either audio or chat for the session basically to make sure that if the connection is too weak, [inaudible 16:22] audio or chat, provide video. We do have that offer.
Clay: Great. You offer text based as well and I guess IM messaging similar to that as well as audio and video.
Hani: Yes.
Clay: Okay, great. How many contractors and therapists do you have currently working with you?
Hani: Now, we have 10 and in addition, we have applicants that we’re trying to vet right now, so about 15.
Clay: Okay. You’ve got 10 now and soon, getting up to 15.
Hani: If all the applications are vetted accordingly, yes.
Clay: Okay. What kind of outreach are you using as far as from the other end from patients?
Hani: Right now, we’re primarily relying on social media advertising. A lot of our clients use the likes of Facebook, Twitter, and they use Google Search to search for whatever condition that they are having or whatever advice that they need. We’re really focusing on those areas and platforms to advertise our services.
Clay: I see, okay. How big do you think the market is? I was fascinated when I spoke with Your Dost that with the second most populous country, India, and the most conservative number, 5% perhaps of the population is in need of some kind of psychiatric or psychological care. Now, we’ve got numbers like 50 million people in need. How big do you think the population is in the Middle East that you’re trying to reach?
Hani: Well, it’s kind of [inaudible 18:17] in the Middle East, I think maybe like 90% of the population need some sort of psychology services, but it’s really hard to put a number to that fact, but really living here, I know it for a fact that a lot of people need some sort of help. What we’re trying really to do is to reach out to those individuals, one at a time, to try to help them out and to get them to do and develop healthier and effective habits.
Clay: Yeah, absolutely. I imagine you’re also looking at a text savvy population with ready access.
Hani: Exactly.
Clay: They are familiar with social media and the internet that this would be just a natural progression to bring this online.
Hani: Exactly, exactly. That’s really our target demographic.
Clay: Now that you’ve been in this for a year, you’re going through the startup phase, what are some of the challenges perhaps that you’re facing?
Hani: Sure. I mean, the most important challenge that we’re facing right now is really to have credibility and to convince our beneficiaries that our service is what it is and it’s not like some sort of typical, so something that will charge them for it and they won’t the service that they need. Having that credibility is something very difficult because here in the Middle East, psychology in general, it’s looked at very differently and people don’t really believe in it. As such, we’re trying our best to gain the credibility by, right now, partnering with other organizations and also having advisers who are well-known psychologists in the Middle East. With that combination and hopefully with word of mouth from the beneficiaries who use our service, hopefully, we can overcome the challenge.
Clay: Yeah, that’s fascinating coming into this culture, this population and saying, “This is safe. It is confidential. This is not a trick.” That’s a big challenge. Do you feel like you’re becoming successful with this?
Hani: I think we are on the right track. When it comes to success in actual results, that’s still something we’re working on, but we are on the right track when it comes to the strategy of advertising strategy and business strategy too to actually reach our goals.
Clay: In focusing currently on Saudi Arabia, the UAE, the Middle East in general, do you see expanding globally to Arabic speakers in the UK, in the US?
Hani: Yes and specifically, with that population, we really are keen on helping out refugees in Europe and other areas in the Middle East who are severely traumatized by whatever they have gone through and need desperate help, but obviously, we would not able to give the help given the specific situation. We are very keen on providing our services for free to those individuals, but right now, really, we’re trying to find the right organizations to partner with because it’s not really as simple as me going to whatever, Germany and start working our services. We really need to have a partner on the ground to connect with and to help in providing our service.
Clay: Fascinating. Such a huge need and I imagine you’ve got some growing pains in front of you as you learn which direction to go to and how to meet that massive need out there. What else should we know about Fadfid? I’m trying to come up with as many questions as possible, but what have we missed here? What should some of our listeners know?
Hani: When we were established, we were the first such platform in the Middle East to provide that comprehensive set of services to our beneficiaries. We are a platform where the beneficiary can search for a therapist, book a session, pay for the session, and conduct the session online in one area. In addition, the ability to reschedule or cancel and pretty much manage the whole process between himself, herself, and the psychologist. That concept is very innovative and we were really the first startup in the Middle East to provide that service and we’re trying our best to build and continue on that narration to reach as many beneficiaries as we can.
Other areas that you need to know about Fadfid is that we’re always looking for experienced and skilled psychologists even though right now we’re focused on Arabic speaking population. Very soon, we’re going to expand to English speaking population. We’re always looking to talk with other psychologists in that area and specifically, to clarify, we do not have psychiatrists, just pure psychologists and pure psychotherapy that we offer on our platform.
Clay: That is fascinating that a person can come in need and find a psychotherapist, book the session, have the session, pay for the session all in one place. That’s what Fadfid is bringing to the table.
Hani: That’s the innovation that we are bringing, yes.
Clay: Wow, incredible, and the first one to do so for the Middle East.
Hani: Exactly. When we were first created, we were the only one who were doing it.
Clay: That’s incredible.
Hani: Yeah.
Clay: Okay. Well, I am always impressed when I’m able to learn how people are using the technology to meet a world in need and you certainly are doing that. Thank you so much for spending time. If there is someone out there looking for services, they are Arabic speaking or they are psychologists or licensed psychotherapists and would like to participate and contact you, fadfid.com is the place to go, correct?
Hani: That is correct.
Clay: Okay. I am going to put all that information in the show notes. Hopefully, you’ll be hearing from some of our listeners who might want to participate in your program. Hani Abughazaleh, thank you so much for joining us and you have a great day.
Hani: Thank you so much for your time. It has been a pleasure and looking forward to hearing more podcasts in the future.
Clay: Thank you very much.